Archive for the ‘Team Associated RC10B4’ Category

Farewell to brushed and NiMH – Part 2 – Associated B4

Thursday, November 5th, 2009

Just a brief look at my B4 before it loses its NiMHs for good… and probably the brushed stuff as well, although I don’t have any brushless electrics for this one yet!

A couple of things have impressed me about the B4 over a few months of owning and racing it.

First is how incredibly durable it is. I am effectively learning 2wd from scratch, racing on a pretty unforgiving multisurface indoor track, and I haven’t broken a single thing. The only part I have had to replace is the rear bulkhead, which was my fault for mistakenly threading a 5-40 screw into it (instead of a 4-40).

Second is how astonishingly well sorted the car is out of the box. After trying almost every alternative part Associated do, and trying various ballast arrangements, I keep coming back to an unballasted car, with springs, 30 degree caster blocks and black steering rack ballstuds being the only parts that are not in the box. Considering the B4 was released 6 years ago and developed on clay tracks, that is just amazing.

Associated B4

Associated B4

Still running the simple white body on my car. Easy to see, easy to paint. Tamiya PS1 cans if you were wondering. I’m running the JConcepts 7″ V-wing (#0109) which is brilliant. Super durable and looks a lot better than the tiny little kit wing – which cracked at the first race meeting. This JConcepts wing is still rock solid. Does it make the car faster and better handling? No idea.

Associated B4 electrics

Associated B4 electrics

Under the shell at present is the following…

  • Futaba S9451 servo – this will stay.
  • Futaba R133F reciever – also staying – I see no need to go to 2.4GHz when 40MHz works so well and there are fewer crystal clashes nowadays!
  • Keyence Rapida Pro ESC – such a good speedo, no capacitors or diodes hanging off it, full on-board programming – perhaps one day the brushless speedos will be this good?
  • Orion V2 12×1 motor – I don’t like these at all – no power and a nuisance to work on. Only put it in because my 19×1 needed new brushes.
  • East Power 4200 NiMH cells – I’m amazed that these survived 2 years of infrequent use and misuse. During that time at least two cells dropped to zero in storage but came back to life. They are totally shot now though.

Not that it is particularly relevant now since so few people use NiMH, but to get the pack to fit neatly in the B4 tray (which was designed around earlier, smaller cells), I had to rebuild it using the Trickbits economy battery bars, which are flat and thin (#TB2001). Stepped bars make the pack too wide.

B4 steering ballstud

B4 steering ballstud

You may just be able to make out in this photo that I have drilled out the top of the Associated ballcup. I have also replaced the ballstuds on the car (at great expense!) with Associated’s socket-head versions from the GT2 and B44. This allows me to undo the ballstuds without unpopping the ball ends. Frankly this wasn’t worth doing. If you want to copy me, use a 2.4mm (3/32″) drill bit to clear the 2mm (5/64″) hex wrench.

What is worth doing is replacing the silver ballstuds that are standard on the steering rack, with the black ones (#3981). These are 30thou lower than the silver ones, and remove the bumpsteer that you get if you use the 30deg caster blocks (an essential in my book – #9593). On the topic of caster blocks, have a 2.8mm (7/64″) reamer or drill bit handy to open out the hinge pin hole – the moulding on these has got incredibly tight since Thunder Tiger took over. My Dremel saw a lot of service during the build!

Associated B4 axle pins and nyloc nuts

Associated B4 axle pins and nyloc nuts

The only other change I have made to the car is a few parts from Nortech Racing. These axle pins are very simple but well worth having in my opinion. The standard B4 axle pin is a rough roll-pin that isn’t as big as the slot in the wheel. Stripped wheels seem likely – thankfully it did not happen to me. These Nortech pins are slightly longer for a better fit in the wheels, and are smooth and solid too which should make them stronger. I was hoping that the longer pins would stop the wheel nuts from working loose, however that has not really been the case. They need checking after each run. It’s a shame Associated don’t supply flanged or serrated nuts like the Japanese cars have.

The other Nortech part is the 4-40 nyloc nuts to hold the camber link ballstuds in place. The plain nuts in the kit can work loose, I lost one myself. I suppose a little threadlock would help but that doesn’t help assembly and disassembly. Nyloc is the way to go. Associated also make a few different kinds of nyloc nut if you prefer.

So, that is the car, all that remains is the setup. As I said earlier, I have tried most things, but kept coming back to the same settings. A few observations…

  • The 30 degree caster blocks get the balance of the car spot on.
  • Moving the camber links in one hole at the wheel tightened the car up nicely and stopped its tendency to roll deep into the corner.
  • Since I run on a mostly carpet track, I found that the stiffer I went on the rear springs, the better the car got. More precision and greater corner speed.  Generally I’m running silvers or greys in the outside hole on the wishbone (truck blues are a step too far and make the rear lose grip).
  • Front springing is in balance with the rear (generally blues or silvers in the outside hole). I also prefer #1 pistons as the #2′s seemed to make the front end a little unpredictable.
  • Anti-roll bar has never been better than running a slightly stiffer spring rate. It upsets the balance between roll and pitch stiffness
  • I could barely tell the difference between wheelbase settings
  • I tried putting more ballast on the front bulkhead to keep the nose down in fast corners. It failed to do that and just made the car feel a little more sluggish on the steering. Stiffer rear springs and shorter links did more to keep the nose down than.

Associated B4 indoor setup – b4_caldicot_19x1v2_DA.pdf

That’s it for now! :)

B4 indoor setup

Saturday, September 26th, 2009

This is the setup I have more or less settled on while running at Caldicot recently, I’ve tried most things now and this is what I keep coming back to.

One important thing to note is that this setup uses an old-school 19×1 brushed motor. Now this is just about enough power for a 2wd car indoors – BUT these motors have a really strong drag brake which has a big effect on handling – bigger than on any 4wd car I have run.

I realised this this evening when I fitted a 12×1 V-brush motor into the car – the difference in the handling was incredible! I had to drop down a grade of spring on the front and run 50% drag brake to get the car to steer.

So, take this setup with a pinch of salt if you are not running a lot of drag brake. If you are, and your track has a lot of carpet on it, it might just work for you.

b4_caldicot_19x1_DA

Building and racing the Team Associated RC10B4 Factory Team

Saturday, June 27th, 2009

Normally I do all that I can to avoid running the same car as everyone else… even when it is a proven winner like the B4. But the situation with parts for the Yokomo B-MAX4 is so bad in the UK at the time of writing that I had to get something else, and the B4 has brilliant parts support trackside (PS Since I first drafted this post a new shipment of Yokomo parts appears to have arrived in UK - just as I sold my B-MAX4! But on past experience I’m not holding out much hope that the supply issues will have been solved).

This is only the second Associated car I’ve owned, I had an RC10GT many years ago which went pretty well except for the fact it had a nitro engine (always a hassle) and the assembly worker hadn’t trimmed the flash from some parts, binding them up. Generally I prefer metric cars because it is easier to get tools and hardware for them.

Since the car has been out for a few years I’m not going to waste anyone’s time by going into great detail about the build, but I will mention a couple of things about my “black box” FT kit, which has a few changes from the manual.

The build

Generally the design and parts quality is top notch, with very good fit and strong materials. The diff is very smooth when built, and the detail in the front suspension geometry is fantastic, the designer really thought about all the possible settings and included spacers to adjust them independently. However the amount of flashing on the suspension parts in particular is excessive, and requires a lot of prep with a Dremel (sanding drum and 7/64″ drill bit for hinge pins), a craft knife, and a small flat file. You have to get the suspension to drop under it’s own weight otherwise your suspension settings will be useless.

It’s also worth noting that the “black box” (Made in China) kits now come with the plastic chassis and top plate rather than the carbon. I couldn’t see much difference in colour between the chassis and carbon towers at first, but after assembling the car and double-checking with Associated themselves, I can confirm that the chassis is definitely the darker, more flexible composite – but it is still very stiff. The contrast with the bendy Yokomo B-MAX4 is immense. Another notable difference is that the car only has #1 pistons (probably a cost cutting measure), not the suggested #2′s for the front. I’ve ordered the full set of pistons as a spare (#6465). Another (tiny) change is that the car came with four blue anodised body pins for the body and wing – in fact it should only have three blue ones and one of the thinner plain ones, because the fat blue ones don’t fit through the “screw-with-hole” mounts. I’ve actually switched all the small clips to black Tamiya ones which are a lot more discreet.

The build was pretty fast in the end. I got the car on Wednesday and after a couple of evenings work and a couple of extra hours in the afternoon I had it built and ready for racing on Friday night. I did make a couple of boo-boos: I tapped a hole for the rear camber link with a 5-40 screw by mistake (this came loose when racing and messed up the handling), and I didn’t compress the diff spring enough at first time of building, my initial setting was way too loose. Tightened it down fully in the car and backed it off 1/8th at the track, this seemed to be a good setting, combined with 3.5 turns on the slipper nut.

One thing that does help the build go quickly is a decent set of tools. The allen keys and plastic spanners included in the kit are not up to much – you’ll need 0.050″, 1/16″, 5/64″ (2mm) and 3/32″ hex drivers, 3/16″, 1/4″ and 11/32″ nut drivers, and ideally a 1/8″ turnbuckle wrench (AE do a couple, #1110 and #1111). For the 3/16″ nut driver I have been using the 5mm socket on a Yokomo box wrench but this is not perfect, it’s worn out a little already.

Some quick pics now of the build…

Race report – Caldicot 12th June 2009

Well, I learnt almost nothing about the car setup during my first race, partly because of the aforementioned loose camber link, and partly because after I came home I realised I had not set the camber or ride height correctly! Camber was wrong because I misinterpreted how to use the Rayspeed camber gauge (I was setting the camber to 0deg instead of 1, the etched number is on the side that is angled), and ride height is firmly recommended to be arms-level in front and bones-level in the rear, when I was running it Yokomo-style at 24mm front (too low) and 25mm rear (too high). To add insult to injury, I forgot to reset the rear ride height after changing springs, which made the car nose flip off the small jumps!

What I did learn was that the car is very durable, and even the kit dirt-track setting is surprisingly well-balanced on a mixed carpet/slippy indoor track. A bit edgy at the limit perhaps, but far from undriveable.

I now have a load of parts for the car on their way from the US (at greater expense than I expected due to postage and customs – should probably have bought most of it in the UK instead), so lots of things to try! I also dowloaded AE’s Complete Tuning Guide for the B4 (#9656) for reference.

One final note about the battery pack. My EP4200s were a shade too wide to fit easily in the tray when assembled with the stepped Much-More battery bars. I’ve rebuilt the packs with the Trickbits Economy Battery Bars (#TB2001) which are flat, and now they slide in without scratching the tape/stickers around the tray. This should prevent any embarrassing battery shorting and let the chassis flex naturally.